IF you have a personal recollection about this topic, send it to David J. and I will post it here.
This discussion started when a 173rd Trooper ask where he might find a Vietnamese Jump Status Badge (full-size).
It turns out that Frito was actually looking for a Vietnamese Pathfinder Badge, but it sure got a discussion going about Jump Pay, go figure.
There are two Vietnamese types of Vn Jump wings..Army airborne and Vietnamese Special Forces,
The Jump designator Badge ( VN Abn Div,) was issued with wings to those assigned to a the Airborne Bivision or a separeate Abn Units. They simply designate those on jump status.
The Vietnamese pathfinder badge is the same as the U.S. Badge in design as it was adapted from the U.S. pathfinder School and Tm 162 Advisors.
The device worn on the Airborne beret ( Red Not Marroon ) is a Parachute enclosed by a gold wreath and is embroidered clothe.
The respective battalion designator is worn on the shoulder tabs of the dress and fatiques uniform.
Advisory Team 162 was one of three Tactical Advisory teams that served in RVN and in MAAG/MAC-V. That simply means the advisors served at battalion and company level in combat and garrison operations.
The Vietnamese Abn was the most decorated allied unit of the Free World Armed Forces that served in Vietnam…and has history from the French Foreign Legion and Colonial Airborne Units, American Airborne Advisors and it’s own gallant history that most Americans are not aware of or are prejudiced of, to the final heroic last stand at Xian Loc and other no name places in the final days of the War.
For further information please contact Uncle Fred Brander (CSM) Secretrary of the Society Of Vietnamese Airborne located in Clarksville, Tennesse.
I served with the 1st BDE / 101st , 173rd LRRP,LRP, N/75 and…
MAC-V Advisory Team 162 , 114 Co. 11th Bat. Vietnamese Airborne Div.
Tome l. Roubideaux (SFC Ret)
I served with the 173rd Abn Bde, “N” Rangers and Support Bn in the Central Highlands of Vietnam from 1970-1971 in II Corp. My quest, @ present, is to obtain a Vietnamese Jump Status Badge (full-size). Can you assist me this quest? If so, please advise.
Miguel “Frito” Arredondo
I don’t have any direct knowledge of where you can find the badge, have you tried a google search?
Honor and Country
Yes. But all they have for display are patches. Thanx, David J.
Miguel “Frito” Arredondo
Can you ask your Email list if anyone knows where to find something like Frito is looking for here?
Honor and Country
If you can assist our 173rd Brother Frito with his search please contact him by Email, [email protected]
Read the thread above, I appreciate your stepping up.
If memory serves at that time (I was in I corps) working with the ARVN, to get a “Vietnamese’ jump status patch, your unit would have to be attached to the ARVN unit (or visa versa) OR get one ‘informally’ from a ARVN unit you worked with or near as a courtesy… exchange wings. Frankly, I never heard of a ‘Vietnamese Jump Status Patch’…
A Co 2/327 69-70 I corps
Bro. Doug, the 173rd Airborne Brigade (and Special Forces) received jump status pay because of the “the Herd” making a combat jump in February, 1965 @ Junction City, RVN.
The badge designed is of a wing with the hand (of feathers) holding a vertical sword. According to Google, it labels the patch as Vietnam Jump Status patch. But I am also wondering if Google confused this with the Vietnamese Pathfinder patch/badge. If this is available (anywhere)…fine, but I am not gonna chase my tail for it.
Thanx for your “reply” and good health to you all. The Herd lost 2 of its Troops in the past 2 months. Hell, doesn’t it feel like we were all 19 years old last month? I shouldn’t have blinked!
What is a Vietnamese Jump Status badge? I have not heard about this badge prior to this last set of emails covering the subject. I thought people were speaking about Vietnamese Jump Wings until a picture of the jump status badge was circulated.
There were Vietnamese Jump Wings issued. Some of us were issued these wings by the South VN military with US orders backing it up. A joint exercise had to be performed to earn this wings. I understand that orders to wear the VN jump wings were rescinded and VN jump wings are not allowed to be worn, however I have orders from both militarys issuing these wings. No big thing! I like the document anyway. Any other word of this?
I really don’t have an answer to your question. Perhaps the Division Historian CPT Page can give us some info or maybe one of the other Brothers has the skinny.
The Badge describe was worn on the Berets of Vietnam Airborne Units, it is the same as the French, Beret Badge with the outer circle removed and is not authorized for wear. American Advisor’s to the Vietnam Airborne Unit’s worn it on the Maroon VN, Army Berets they wore, also it was worn on a hanger affix to the shirt pocket of the Class A/B uniform. Besides the 173rd and Special Forces being on Jump Status the First Brigade Operate as a Parachute Unit until the rest of the 101st arrived in Vietnam and for the 101st it remained on Jump Status during its first year in Vietnam until it was re flagged as the 101st Air Cavalry Division. As for the Jump Wings,to wear them on your uniform the award had to be approve by the Dept. of the Army, this was done by DA sending a letter order to the individual approving the acceptance of the Badges for inclusion in the service member’s official records. The Vietnam Parachute Badges was the most Prostituted award during the Vietnam, War as Certificates were sold indicating their award. There are two type of badges, one for the Army and one for the Viet Nam Special Forces, referred to as the LLDB Badge.
I could swear I collected Jump pay while in Nam. 1/327 67-69 and LRRPS 69-70.
I know I was paid jump pay through ’67, it was shortly after I left in late ’67 that the 101st became “Airmobile” and I always thought that was when they drop the jump status pay because of the many non-airborne that were sent in as replacements. See, out of respect I didn’t use leg, it indeed is a kinder, gentler world.
Honor and Country
I resemble that remark! I am a proud leg and you can call me that anytime. There were times we jumped out that chopper 20′ above ground (elephant grass prevented a lower descent). I have the broken collar bone as fond memory.
OH, OH David J.
Leg & damn proud of it.
I received Jump pay all 20 months that I was in Vietnam, including the time that I was with D Co 1/327. I was awarded my Vietnamese Jump Wings when I went down south with SF.
As a matter of fact I received Jump pay right after I graduated from Jump School in May of 68 until I ETS
I was paid JUMP PAY from the time I finished jump school ’till I got out of the Army.
John Hargett ATR 69
I drew Jump pay all the time in Nam. Tiger Force 67-69 and with LRRPS 69-70.
I got My jump pay while in nam + hazardous duty pay 🙂 67-68 . I think jump pay was $55.00 and the combat pay was $60.00 or $65.00 ? per month.
I finished AIT at Ft. Sill in Dec 1968. Six of us that had signed up for Airborne School were called into the commanders office and told,,,, as of January 1969, Airborne pay would not be given to Vietnam occupied troops.
All airborne troopers received jump pay regardless if they jumped or not in Vietnam until January 1 1969. Five of us took our name off the list and Steve Noel went anyhow and ended up with the 173rd Abn in RVN.
“In the beginning”, During the units 1st tour, we had to jump to maintain our jump status. I made two jumps, one from a chopper and one tailgate from a caribou. Not combat jumps, but just for the pay!
Gerald M. Aggson
1/327 65-66 RVN ATR
Like all of you I received my jump pay all of my first tour in Nam with 2/327th (Delta & Hawks) May ’68 – May ’69
After that tour I went back to Bragg with the 82nd. I reenlisted and went to Rigger School and Special Forces (7th SFG).
I was then sent back to Nam in July 1970 with 5th SFG. When I arrived, they received their deactivation orders. I couldn’t go back with them because I had just gotten there (and if I remember right) needed 90 days in country to go back home with them. So being jump qualified they sent me to the “Herd” 173rd Airborne Bde., and continued receiving my jump pay all through that second tour until July 1971.
I arrived in Nam May 68. I got jump pay for my whole year over there. If I remember correctly, the 327th went airmobile in July of 68. that was also about the time legs came to the units from the 90th Replacement.
Actually I collected Jump Pay the entire time in Nam 67-70. The pay was Base pay + Jump pay + Overseas pay + Combat pay and all tax free.
I also received jump pay from jump school, Ranger school and Dec. 68-Nov 69 with 2/327.
Tom Murray NS
I drew jump pay Jun 67-Jun 68 w/1/327 I also drew jump pay 4/70- 12/70 w/ k co 75th RGR. I was never offered ARVN Jump Wings. But what would be the point??????? Who cares??? US Jump Wings are enough for me; all others are superfluous.
Bill Hall ABU 67-68 SGM USA (Ret)
Superfluous is a big word for me, I hope y’all liked it
Regarding Jump Pay, the 1st Bde in 65 was still on jump status in Nam and we got our $55.00 per month. I jumped twice from choppers to stay on Jump status and keep the pay while in Nam. On my second tour in 70 and 71, only the Rangers, L Co, 75th Inf, opcon to 2/17th Cav drew jump pay as an added incentive to be rangers. Combat pay was $65.00 per month the whole time.
Well, the guvment sure spent a lot of money so ya’ll could get you kicks jumping outta aeroplanes!
I figure the pioneering research we did in chopper repelling with rucks 20 + feet off the ground pretty much justified my jump pay in ’67 Jim, especially since they didn’t think to provide us with ropes at the time. [:-) You might have seen one such picture from 67 printed in Ivan Worrell’s, The First Screaming Eagles in Viet Nam, a few years back. http://101stabndiv1stbrigade.com/
I helped perfect that technique in 1969 you may have seen the picture of exiting a chopper at altitude I provided some time ago. Forgot to send the bill for jump pay being a leg and all.
Can’t say I remember the picture offhand, Jim, but it don’t count if they gived you ropes. [:-) Wish you would have shared it with everyone else.
The picture is posted on the web site and I clipped it from Stars & Stripes. Trust me there were no ropes just air …borne Screaming Eagles but alas we was all legs. The picture is posted under the topic thread of “exiting a slick from altitude” Inside the Wire“discussion among the troops here’s the shortcut to it http://www.327infantry.org/node/3619 You’ll see three pictures from the paper of my platoon, two rappelling down a mountain side and one exiting the slick without ropes. The good old days!
I wish you had shared my response, Jim, because it was germane to the jump pay issue and a good natured response to your rather sarcastic one. It is not our fault that you did not choose to go to jump school.
I looked at the picture you posted and though it’s a little hard to tell exactly what the altitude is, judging by the ground shadow, it does not look anything like the altitude I was talking about and I could not make out a ruck on the guy exiting. The simple fact of the matter is, we could not have made some of the jumps we made without injuries if we had not gone to jump school and been drilled in PLFs until they became a natural and automatic part of us which I believe justified paying us jump pay.
Sorry I thought you were referring to sharing the picture I had rather then sharing your Email Thread. It’s out there now.
Jump Pay is only paid to people in an Airborne unit’s jump slots. Individuals are not authorized jump pay unless assigned to a specific TOE positioned have a “P” identifier on their MOS for that position.. The entire 1st Brigade was on Airborne Status in country until the Division arrived and then the jump pay stopped. Your retained the “P” but, no pay.
I do believe L 75th was OPCON to the 1st BDE 101st not 2/17th. 2/17 flew our operations and provided a reaction platoon if we got in trouble.
Greetings to all from the pacific northwest…. I’ve been watching the conversation reference jump pay and Vietnamese airborne insignia, and can add a couple of notes…. concerning jump pay while serving with the 101 in Vietnam…. I joined the 2/327 in June 1967, and drew jump pay until July1969 when I was reassigned to the airborne department at Ft. Benning, despite the fact that lots of non-airborne guys arrived following the division’s deployment, and despite the change in the division’s composition and designation from airborne to airmobile…. it must have been that people who were on jump status and who extended continued to draw jump pay as long as they remained in the division…. I returned to the division in January 1971, and was back on jump status as I was assigned to the pathfinder company, which had continued to be filled with airborne qualified guys who were drawing jump pay…. I was reassigned to the 2/327 for the second half of that year, and went off jump status then…. and now to Vietnamese airborne insignia — when the division was preparing to return to Ft. Campbell at the end of 1971 I extended to join team 162, which was the U.S. Advisor team serving with the Vietnamese airborne division…. I Served with the 5th battalion, and wore the uniform and badges of the Vietnamese airborne with pride…. there were three distinctive badges worn on that uniform…. the Vietnamese jump wings were the most familiar of those badges to most people, and the insignia that some Americans wore on the ups. Uniform — they were modeled on the French jump wings, but smaller, and were awarded in the same three qualification levels that U.S. Wings are awarded — basic, senior, and master…. the senior wings have a star and the master have a palm affixed to the middle of the badge to show the qualification level. Vietnamese soldiers on jump status also wore a unique badge on the left pocket of their uniform blouse, called the “jump status indicator”…. it was a winged fist gripping a short sword or bayonet…. the cloth version of this insignia was sewn on fatigues, and a metal version was pinned on dress uniforms…. this badge is not as well known, probably because it was not authorized for wear on the U.S. uniform…. the third badge was the airborne beret insignia, which was a parachute with longer wings that extended up both sides of the parachute…. the authoritative source on these items is entitled “Insignia of the Republic of Vietnam Army Airborne Division”, compiled and edited by Harry Pugh…. it’s a great source, and it also contains a short review of each of the Vietnamese airborne battalion’s history and lineage, for those who are interested…. keep the faith, and airborne all the way….
I too served with team 162 during my second tour in Vietnam. I was the senior advisor to the 6th ARVN airborne battalion for the entire tour from AUG 68-AUG 69. Mike is completely correct on all the information he provided. The only authorized badge that can be worn on the US uniform was/is the VN jump wings. The other insignias/patches and badges were not authorized and were only worn while assigned to that unit, in country. Mike forgot the Airborne Division patch which was worn on the left shoulder and that is a red patch with a yellow ring around a blue parachute with a black eagle in the middle. I will attempt to print these pictures and e-mail them, but first I must consult my Grandson on how to do it.
We all were paid jump pay during the first tour.
1/327 and 2/327 Inf. Vietnam
Jim, it seems that you have become the postoffice for this conversation, but i’d like to thank Tom for the airborne shoulder patch reminder…. The previous conversation seemed to be focused on “what is that jump status indicator anyway????”, as well as the levels of vietnamese jump wings and who could wear them, etc….. have you hooked up with either the team 162 or vietnamese airborne groups in the u.s.? i don’t have my roster handy, but would be glad to give you or anyone else that might be interested the contacts ….
As is often the case as one of these threads develops they will take off in different directions. The interesting thing about this thread is it started with a request for information from a 173rd Brother regarding Vietnamese Jump Status Wings and moved on into Jump Pay. Once the entire thread plays out David J. one of the 327th Vietnam Eagles’ web masters will post the discussion on the web site. We have found that using this form of commo is an excellent way to preserve the eyewitness to history that 327th Brothers are. I have not contacted the Vietnamese Airborne groups or the Team 162. I would be interested in having the information to share with the rest of my Email Roster and if they have Web Sites I’m sure we would like to link to them.
No Slack, Sir!
Hello and Good Memories, All:
I was with recon, Co-E 3-187, 3-101st on my second tour when we went off jump status as an Airborne unit. The transition date was 01 September, 1968.
LIVE LONG AND PROSPER, BE SAFE, BE TACTICAL:
HENRY B. MORTON